Wed 21 Apr, 2010
Pre-Edit: I think the person I am talking about in this post still reads my blog/LJ. This post is not intended as a “call out” or an “insult”. I respect you and your views, I just don’t happen to share them. Don’t feel obliged to comment or reply in here. If you want to keep anonymity, feel free to message me directly on the usual channels.
Still a little annoyed with what I consider to be a semi-ambush debate I got into last night. I’ve made my personal opinion and stance on guns and gun use very clear. Now someone I do consider on the friend side of acquaintance last night linked me a suggestion on the Australian Liberal Party website that someone wanted to allow Concealed Carry Permits (CCP) for handguns. This is relatively common in the US where most states allow it, and if my memory serves me right Arizona just removed the requirement for people to have a permit to concealed carry.
The discussion around that fell back into my friend and my usual patterns of his trying to show me just how guns don’t alter crime statistics in any negative way, and me trying to debate the opposite. Last night I was in the middle of doing a couple of other things at the same time, so my heart and head weren’t really in the debate, so I was relying on the statistics my friend was providing, which were not clean statistics in my opinion (one of the commentators on the original Liberal Party piece stated that the US had the highest per capita gun death rate in the world, this was challenged and rightly so, as it’s not true.).
One thing I disliked about the nature of the argument that followed however was that the core of the debate was around a suggestion for increased gun ownership in Australia. I personally don’t think that there is any justification for such a thing. My friend is an American who is a reformed gun-hater. He now owns several, has a CCP in multiple states, and regularly shoots and maintains his guns as part of his every day life.
During the discussion though, various stats were brought up – how the gun death per capita was higher in Mexico, Russia and… Brazil? (forgive me, I’m working off memory and I can’t remember the third example given). I tried to ask what a comparative gun death rate is in a first world democracy (as both the US and Australia are. For the record, the US has a gun death rate of ~10.6 per 100,000 people, Australia has a ~2.5 rate. These figures are very approximate, though). After I asked for stats from the UK or Germany, both densely populated nations with fairly strict gun controls, I was given a nebulous quote about high “violent crime rates” in the UK. When I asked for Gun Death figures, I was told I should look for it myself, and that I was “typically apathetic” (misquote I know) about the issue and it was no wonder gun laws were being repealed.
So in response, here we are – the figures from the UK compared to the US. The figures are from Wikipedia, so take that with a grain of salt. They are all attributed on the wiki page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom
By way of international comparison, in 2004 the police in the United States reported 9,326 gun homicides.[30] The overall homicide rates per 100,000 (regardless of weapon type) reported by the United Nations for 1999 were 4.55 for the U.S. and 1.45 in England and Wales.[31] The homicide rate in England and Wales at the end of the 1990s was below the EU average, but the rates in Northern Ireland and Scotland were above the EU average.[32]
While the number of crimes involving firearms in England and Wales increased from 13,874 in 1998/99 to 24,070 in 2002/03, they remained relatively static at 24,094 in 2003/04, and have since fallen to 21,521 in 2005/06. The latter includes 3,275 crimes involving imitation firearms and 10,437 involving air weapons, compared to 566 and 8,665 respectively in 1998/99.[33] Only those “firearms” positively identified as being imitations or air weapons (e.g. by being recovered by the police or by being fired) are classed as such, so the actual numbers are likely to be significantly higher. In 2005/06, 8,978 of the total of 21,521 firearms crimes (42%) were for criminal damage.[34]
Compared to the United States of America, the United Kingdom has a slightly higher total crime rate per capita of approximately 85 per 1000 people, while in the USA it is approximately 80.[35]
One other element that was raised last night was that part of the reason Australia has a lower gun death rate was that we have a much lower population density than the US. While this is true, there are contributing factors that this does not account for (for example massive sections of Australia are near uninhabitable desert, and the majority of the population are located on the coastal strip on the east coast, but I digress here…). To bring the discussion back to the UK/US comparison, here are the relative population densities between the UK and the US:
UK: 254.676 people per km2
USA: 32.101 people per km2
(for shits and giggles, Australia is 2.896, just behind Iceland, and ahead of Namibia)
So one of the points raised last night, that the US’s higher gun death rate is partially due to a higher population density, appears to not bear fruit when compared to other nations.
So what’s the difference? In my liberal-biased view it would likely be gun ownership in general. The more people who have a gun (legally or not) the more likely it is for those guns to be used. Now the vast majority of gun owners are like my friend. Responsible people who take the utmost care with their guns and have never shot anyone in their life, nor are they likely to except ni the most extreme of instances. That’s true in the USA, that’s true in the UK, that’s true here. What is a big differentiator from what I can see safely hidden behind a few thousand miles of ocean, is that the US has a very gun-oriented culture. Americans love their guns, which is cool for them I guess, but Australia just doesn’t have that mindset. In Melbourne we’re currently having a problem with people being stabbed. It doesn’t change the fact that I, as a knife owner (love my swiss army knives) now have to leave them at home instead of keeping on me if needed otherwise it’s liable to be confiscated by the police.
However… if guns were more freely available, I’m sure those miscreants stabbing people would be shooting people instead. And if I had gotten into the habit, as many younger people have done, of carrying a knife around with me in case someone ELSE was to threaten me with a knife, I’d suddenly realise that that knife was insufficient for personal defense purposes… so I’d also go and get the same weapon being used to potentially menace me to stop being menaced. THAT, in my opinion, is what is happening in the US. Bad Dudes have guns. It only makes sense for Good Dudes to carry guns to, to keep the arms race level.
In Australia, the UK, Germany, New Zealand, etc etc, the Bad Dudes, for the most part, do NOT carry guns, so the Good Dudes don’t feel the pressure to carry a gun for defence.
I don’t want to cast judgement on US gun owners in those statements. If a gun gives you peace of mind and a sense of security, then good for you. You do what you feel is needed to protect yourself, your family, and your property. Here in Australia, we’re not in a security situation where a gun is needed for self defence. It might get to that stage one day, who knows, but I can comfortably say that here in Australia, in early 2010, there is no need for an average person to have a gun for personal protection.

